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Comment by 20342

Fireball not only has better scaling than this, but also higher base damage. In pure DPS situations, Fireball will always win out.

Where this spell shines is if a fire mage needs a slow, where it will do more damage than Frostbolt because of talents. I could see it being used as an opener on mobs, making it more likely the mob drops before he reaches the caster.

More importantly, it also allows fire mages to use "fire" spells on fire-resistance bosses, such as Supremus, while not having to resort to respeccing (especially while learning the encounter) or simply doing drastically less damage.

Does anyone know if this is still castable on fire-*immune* mobs rather than just resistant? I assume it is, but just wanting to make sure, Blizz has done weirder word tricks in the past.

EDIT: This is probably incorrect. If Frostfire benefits both from Fire and Frost damage-boosting talents, the bridge in the +dmg scaling can be made up. See the post by nZifnab and my reply below.

Comment by 175871

this may be my hopeful delusions of a good elemental spec...but does any1 know if this is going to be affected by both ice shards AND ignite? if so...i could imagine it all, the crits would do double dmg and then burn for 40% of that....i know it says it will do frost damage if they are more vulnerable but *shrugs* blizzards messed up tooltips in worse ways.

Comment by 23043

this might have potential if utilized in a hybrid frost/fire build.

Comment by faia

yay fire mage version of frostbolt....if you nto more into frost;)

Comment by 178142

mine will be : 0/34/07
Certainly the best pve (frostfire) template ever !

- 22% dmg frost/fire (Fire power5/5 + Playing with Fire2/3 + Piercing ice3/3 + Artic Winds4/5)
-18% crit (Critical Mass3/3 + Pyromaniac 2/3 + WinterChill) 68% with winter'grasp Proc
- Scroch Imp
- Molten Fury
- Winter's Grasp
- 20% threat reduction
- crit 280% (ice shards+ingnite)

Pyro is useless
Combustion is useless

Comment by 177625

Anyone else notice something? as of now, this spell has 40 yard range not counting talents. If this stacks with range increasing talents, it would be all the more wonderful for PvE

Comment by Gnomey

combustion is useless? it's about as useless as icy veign

sarcasm mate :)

Comment by silentstryder

Fireball not only has better scaling than this, but also higher base damage. In pure DPS situations, Fireball will always win out.

I dont think this spell is to replace a Main Nuke spell.....as an Arcane Fire Mage, i see that spell as another DOT spell... giving fire Magi Fireball, Forstfire Bolt, and Pyroblast.

If i were in a Raid, i would let the Tank build some aggro, and Cast FrostFire, and then spam Fireballs for 9 sec and then another Frostfire to renew the DOT,and maybe sometimes throw in a POM Pyro for an additional DMG+DOT

Comment by hellsingfan

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/wrath/mage/talents.html?tal=0000000000000000000000000000023051020123033310531200003002035330310005000030000000000 sry for using the blizz calc but I find it the best one, I think this build is going to be optimal if the talents stay the way there are for now and if the spell benefits from both frost and fire talents (open with scroch, when all stacked u start the frostfire bolt spam and once in a while renew the scorch effect)

Comment by 181858

mmk so to who ever said down rank scorchs hmm downranking in WOTLK...no gg kthxbai

As another topic you CAN spec for both imp scorch AND winters chill which is probably the best

Frostfire bolt makes Winterchill proc as if you were using frostbolts and there is a godlike inscription coming that makes imp scorch 5 sack no matter what

I.E. start boss fight-cast scorch once-5 sacks of fire vulnerability on already

With this spec you get https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=oZfVobRhIuVub0cZMAccocp0c

Ignite(assuming you all know what it does) this procs when you crit with forstfire bolt :)
Increased 6 yard range
-20% threat
30% refund of mana cost on crits
100% critical damage extra
Passive execute- 20% extra damage when your target is below 20%
13% extra damage
-16% mana cost
29% extra crit chance ( with Imp scorch and winters chill on )
3% spell hit
Icy Veins
Blastwave (filler but eh its better than imp fire ball lol)
Combustion
Cold snap (extra ice block for aggro drop)
Pyroblast (filler once again)

IMO this will be far superior to any spec except maybe this https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=ofxVbuMhzxGuMxcdfZVhc0o deep arcane (taking full advantage of the 30% increased crit chance when POM is active...arcane missiles arcane barrage rotation, these dont consume POM)

ONCE AGAIN IT COUNTS AS FIRE AND FROST AS AN EXAMPLE WHEN YOU CRIT WITH IT (I HAVE TESTED THIS) IGNITE WILL HAPPEN BUT ALSO EVERYTIME YOU HIT WITH IT WINTER'S CHILL APPEARS ON TARGET GET IT? KTHXBAI
*caps lock off*

Comment by 222279

i think the imp frostbolt/ fireball talent should also benefit this. i clearly understand that if they stacked, then it would be way too OP.

An easy solution would be to either make them non-stacking, or maybe to swap one 5p talent on a higher tier of a school, with one of thier respective cast time reducing talents

Comment by 209289

Not only do we get Ice Shards, Icy Veins, Combustion, Ignite, and Burnout, Empowered Fireball now affects the spell damage coefficient on Frostfire Bolt as well. With this change, I have no doubt that 0/50/21 is the premier raiding spec.
https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=oZfV0bRhIhVubhsxhIcsocz

Comment by 225129

It takes the benefits from both trees. Ice Shards and all the fire goodies... It is really great for PvE for this fact. It only does about 150-200 dmg less than fireball, but the crits are larger and also effected by ignite. 0/52/19 @ 80 is doing about 1600dps in the Savage Gladiator blues you get in beta. By far better than any other PvE spec I have tried.

Comment by Solomonx

So i know that everyone is saying it is affected by both frost AND fire talents, but does it function as both? as in, will both Fire power (increases damage with fire spells by ten percent) and piercing ice (increase damage with frost spells by 6%) stack to a total of 16% extra damage? or is it useless to get both?

Comment by 40061

In order for ice shards to provide more damage potential than improved fireball's 16.66666...%, you would need x crit rate (assuming 5/5 ignite and 5/5 burnout):

((2.25 * 1.4 -1) - (1.75 * 1.4 - 1)) * x/100 = 1/6
0.7x = 100/6 = 50/3
x = 50/3 * 10/7 = 500/21

That's approximately 23.81% crit rate. With 9% bonus crit from talents, you'd probably have to intentionally gimp your crit rate to dip below 24% crit rate. The 0.5 sec cast reduction also penalizes fireball's mana efficiency, so as far as frostfire bolt vs fireball goes, fireball is basically obsolete in beta build 9038.

Comment by 231366

Due to this new spell, what do You guys think about this spec for PVP?
https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=ofcbf0MczZfV0fohZAI0Iobu0cz
Seems to be a pretty nice cuz of: shatter,+20 % spellcrit(from both winter chill and imp. scorch),POM for Pyro and a imp CS.
I cant wait to test this build in WoTLK :)

Comment by Spiderjon

Changes:
*winter chill and imp scorch don't stack, so you can drop one.
*arcane fortitude won't give you as much armor as you think. with 800 int, you'll gain 1200 armor which, unless you have a ridiculously low armor count, won't make that big of a difference in pvp.
*magic attunement probably won't be as useful if you're going to go frostfire spam. best to put it somewhere else.
*spell impact doesn't increase frostfire spell damage.
*the first 5 points are probably better spent in improved arcane missiles, since you're not going to be using many arcane spells. the pushback protection would probably be more useful.
*from what i hear, flame throwing doesn't affect frostfire bolt. put it into improved shattered barrier for another shot at shatter.

without deviating too much from the trees that you spent your points in, i'd change it up to be like this:
https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=o0xi0hMczZfV0cRZhIcIofu0cd

this gives you (damage-wise):
* PoM
* +6% damage on your first frostfire bolt, +18% from the 2nd frostfire bolt onwards.
* Shatter & +10% crit from Winter's Chill
* 280% damage on crits
* 3% increased hit
* Ice Barrier, and a 100% chance to get a shatter when they break it.

this is, of course, assuming you're trying to max out frostfire's damage while still tri-speccing. personally, i would choose deep frost/fire or deep fire/frost since there's more synergy there.

it's not bad for a tri-spec, but if you wanted to max out frostfire damage, you should try:
https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=oZfV0cRMhubZhIfcocu0fdxbs -- deep frost
* +11% damage on frostfire
* +10% chance to crit from Winter's Chill
* 280% damage on crits
* 30% reflect / negate and gain mana = to damage caused
* Shatter, Ice Barrier + Shattered Barrier, Fingers of Frost.
* Water Elemental

https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=oZfV0cRhhuiur0sxhfccoch -- deep fire.
* +16% frostfire bolt damage
* +9% crit, +19% chance to crit with scorch stacked (protip: use https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/item=42747)
* 30% mana refund on crits
* 315% damage on crits(?)
--Someone check my math please *1.4(ignite)=315%
* -16% mana cost of frostfire.

Most of the answers to your questions are in the thread, like the green post near the top by nZifnab.

Comment by BrollyLSSJ

Will Ice mages be able to learn this Frostfire Bolt aswell from Trainer or is it for Fire mages only?

Edit: Ok, if i understand wotlkwiki correct, everyone can learn it.

Comment by Ienzo

What does this spell look like? I hope its kool like a intertwined fireball and frostbolt thats spinning towards their enemy. pew pew.

Edit:Ok so i just saw the most recent looking version of frostfire bolt and i must say it looks sweet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTgLcrCBHdo
Now all they got to do is make one hand glow blue and the other hand glow red when u cast this spell.

Comment by 235749

What I want to know is this: if you get counterspelled etc while casting Frostfire Bolt, does it lock out both your fire and frost schools?

Comment by 129338

this spell benefits from fire and frost talents, and if the mob is immune/ resistant to one school, it damages as though it's the other school. THe highest DPS has been shown by going all the way down in fire and only 18 talents in frost. the 53/18 spec grabbing talents that affect both fire and frost spells

yes frost talents buff the fire damage and vice versa

Comment by bhorowitz

fireball still wins in raids. no need for kiting in raids. in soloing u could open with it to slow down, which is nice if your frost, but if your fire its best to open with a pyroblast. for pvp best thing to do is to sheep, then pyroblast, then frost nova, frostfire bolt. then do all ur things b/c now u have a minor kiting ability

Comment by Tabmoc

I was never looking forward to getting this spell as a frost mage, to be honest I wasn't that excited about it.

Boy was I wrong.

When I hit level 75, I stayed deep frost but I threw some points into fire (mainly Ignite and Impact) just to test out this spell.

Frostfire benefits from both fire talents and frost talents, at the same time. In the same fight, versus the same mob, I had impact proc, frostbite proc, and ignite was ticking after every huge crit.

This spell is amazing, especially because it benefits from both fire and frost talents at the same time!

Comment by 167605

Fire or frost? which one is it more like who will know and maybe its both and it actully gets bonus to it from fire and frost

Comment by Regigo

First, I'd like to say this: Sorry for having such a bad lookig post, I'm new to this.. Please bear with it.

When I dinged 75 with my mage, I teleportet to IF, respecced to this: (the 5 points that hasn't been used, will go to frost. I'll take 3 points to Frost Channeling, 1 point for Shatter and then Cold Snap) and started to use Frostfire Bolt as my main DPS spell.

Frostfire Bolt has several advantages compared to Frostbolt or Fireball.

First Frostbolt

Unlike Frostbolt, this spell can trigger Ignite, Hot Streak and it benefits from Burnout.
They both have the same slow speed, so you won't lose that and both of them benefit from Permafrost and Chilled to the Bone too, but Frostfire Bolt has the DOT too. The Dot isn't that effective, but still it is additional damage.

Then Fireball

Unlike Fireball, Frostfire Bolt can trigger frost talents. The slow is great, and the critical strike damage from Ice Shards, makes the crit damage with Frostfire Bolt goes around the same numbers.
With the slow effect, this makes far more better spell than Fireball, in my opinion.
---

I'd like to bring up the statistics of Frostfire Bolt

Frostfire Bolt has 25% chance of making the target stop. 10% from Ignite, and 15% from Frostbite.
Well, same 25% goes to Frostbolt too, but not to Fireball.
My Fire spell crit chance is 20.30% (11.30% for rest of the schools of Magic)
So my spells crit quite often, and when they do they trigger Ignite so it is pretty good damage.

For soloing, Frostfire Bolt is a good option. If you're deep Frost, you'll survive longer, but if you're Fire, you'll deal more damage. Frostfire goes in the middle of these two specs.

Only spec that I've found bit better, is Arcane/Frost. With Arcane Barrage, Missile Barrage and Spell Power, the DPS should go higher than it does with Frostfire Bolt.

I recommend you all mages to atleast try out Frostfire Bolt spec, I really loved it, and I hope you would too. I hope I helped with atleast something.

Comment by 249594

If you crit with a Frostfire Bolt on a fire-immune target, does Ignite work?
edit: It does not.

Comment by 102865

Yawn, couldnt even bother to read all this more or less nonsense.

With a little common sense I came up with this, should do the trick

https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=oZfVc0RhIuVubhstbIccoc

Comment by 161867

So this spell makes fire and frostbolt obsolete then?

Comment by 227638

and for a acrane mage? is frostfirebolt not good then ?

Comment by 254110

Well magek07 it isnt really good for arcane because it doesnt really elp them much. With deep arcane you have slow and you normal arcane spells and im sure with the right specs in arcane ou can do more damage. So no i dont thing it really helps arcane much.

And Lyyli you do have a point there. The reason not haing frostbite if anybody was wondering is that with Imp Blizzard it scatters the mob and makes it difficult to kill everything at once. But i do understand where you are coming from about impact, maybe they just forgot to take it off or just didnt see much difficulties with impact versus frostbite.

Comment by 262567

In case no one here realises, Frostfire bolt double dips from Elemental Precision gaining +6% hit instead of just 3% meaning you are able to stack more SP and +crit rather than +hit.

Comment by 54514

Assuming a build like this: https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=oZfVc0RhhuVubGsthIccoc
And assuming all pertinant frost and fire spell bonuses affect Frostfire bolt -at the same time- regardless of what type of damage it's doing (fire or frost) then:

Frostfire from talents:
+16% damage (I'm assuming this is factored in after spell damage here)
+19% crit chance (Assuming stacked Imp. Scorch)
+15% Spell Damage Coefficient
+150% raw crit damage bonus (meaning crits hit for 2.25 times normal damage)
+40% damage from Ignite on crit

So if we take a baseline 2000 spell damage and 50% crit chance after talents and Scorch and stuff.. and because it makes the numbers pretty.

3142 average hit
3209 high hit
7070 average crit + 2827 Ignite = 9899 total damage
7220 high crit + 2888 Ignite = 10108 total damage

Adding in ticks at 30 damage/3 second for the DoT component of Frostfire Bolt (10 dps)

2184 average dps

Now using a fire/arcane Fire Ball spec such as this one, which is very similar: https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=of0Vck0hZ0EcbRhhuVubust

Fire Ball from talents:
+16% damage
+19% crit chance (Scorch)
+15% spell damage coefficient
+50% raw crit damage bonus (Fire Ball crits for 1.75 times normal)
+40% Ignite damage on crit

And assuming the same baseline 2000 spell damage and 50% crit w/ Imp. Scorch etc., etc.

3840 average
6720 average crit + 2688 Ignite = 9408 total damage
3981 high
6967 high crit + 2787 Ignite = 9754 total damage

Adding in ticks of 29 damage/2 second from the DoT component (15dps, and completely ignoring the lovely Fire Ball glyph)

2223 average dps

So with these stats, Fireball just edges out Frostfire Bolt in average dps. This is because Fireball recieves a 115% spell damage coefficient after talents and Frostfire Bolt, as a 3 second cast recieves only 96.43% spell damage coefficient after talents.

However, as was mentioned Frostfire Bolt recieves greater benefit from critical strikes.

At a theoretical 70% crit chance and assuming the same talents and spell damage:

Frostfire Bolt @70% crit: 2634 average dps

Fire Ball @70% crit: 2594 average DPS

As you can see, the Elemental Frostfire build pulls ahead in average DPS at very high critical strike chances, while the Fire Ball build will pull ahead with heavy spell damage. Exactly when one is ahead of the other will depend on a combination of your spell damage and crit chance.

Comment by 278318

If I want to do a Frostfire Bolt spec for PvE which talent tree would it be better to go deep in frost or fire & which ever is better for PvE could anybody link some builds?

Sorry for bad spelling

Comment by 247601

One important note about this spell is that it doesn't pick up any of the talented improvements for range or casting time from either frost or fire trees.

Comment by Mythical

I find this spec to be the best in pvp:
https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=oZfV0bRhhufZhIccofuhbdxbo
Has pretty much everything you need.

Comment by 253697

Current Best RAID Spec for Mages:

https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=oZfVcbRhIhVubhctbIccoc

This spec includes the rotation using Scorch and Frostfire

Comment by 227638

BTW 2 points in flame trowhing dont need, you can put it where you want :)

Comment by Silverado

Whoever was posting spec's up there for PvE DPS I must admit something. Those are the worst PvE specs for a Mage I have ever seen in my life.

EDIT: Good job karbonii, you're the only person I've seen yet that posted a spec for PvE and isn't retarded. That's the same exact spec I came up with for maximum DPS. Everyone else is like 23/24/24 or something relevant to that.

Comment by 128231

For those curious, Frostfire Bolt does proc Brain Freeze.

Comment by specterk

For those worried about preserving their AoE and other utility with a frostfire build, give this a shot: Utility FFB.
This is the build I'm currently using at level 80 (though I maxed Frostbite and went 2/3 Ice Floes), and I actually prefer it to the cc FF raid spec simply for the utility. I like being able to hop into a BG or solo difficult content without respeccing, and Blast Wave, Dragon's Breath, Impact, 1pt in Firestarter (which is all you need for aoe situations--as you know if you've used it--since proc chance is calculated for *each* mob struck by the spell), and a couple points in Shatter really make for infinite possibilities.

Keep in mind, I tend to enjoy the challenge of soloing content that isn't designed to be soloed at all - so if those kinds of challenges aren't for you, you'll likely never use some of the potential of this build, and should probably stick to a cookie cutter for whichever role you are primarily filling.

The only talents I "give up" (not how I'd put it) are Playing with Fire (piddly damage at 1% per point), Burning Soul (redundant due to Frost Channeling and mythical, elusive creatures known as "good tanks" - and I have yet to meet a good mage that actually needed pushback reduction), and Master of Elements (also redundant, even more so now due to the mana regen buff to Pyromaniac, which is hardly needed with a FFB build in the first place).

If you raid less frequently, you might move one point from Ice Floes into Frostbite to max it out as I choose to do, but if you're obsessing over every iota of dps you'll probably want to leave Ice Floes at 3/3. (The "perfect" cone of cold with 3/3 Ice Floes really isn't remarkable in my opinion; if you are cutting your AoE maneuvering that close, you're doing something else incorrectly anyhow).

If you're a hardcore raider and your tank is... well, not... then you may want to move points from Impact into Burning Soul - but your threat really should be manageable with just Frost Channeling. If threat isn't an issue and you'd rather have a (very) slight raid damage increase rather than the control offered by Impact, then put the 3 points from Impact into Playing with Fire.

AoE: your aoe routine will be pretty much standard, except you have the potential to really put out the numbers with a combustion + nova + fstrike + bwave/dbreath (shatter) combo as needed or desired. Even without this, you can AoE kite indefinitely with cone of cold + arcane explosion strafe if you'd like - so really this is more applicable to a situation where you really need overpowering AoE dps ("yesterday, maggots!") and need to take care of bid'ness on your own. Start your routine as usual, with combustion + flamestrike; kite as desired or able, until you're ready to finish the group, then pop CoC, Dragon's Breath, Flamestrike, Nova, Blast Wave, and if somehow everything isn't 3x dead, blink away, wait for the mobs to regroup and use up your last instant Flamestrike. Combustion + Shatter = ... damn...

Edit: I thought I should add, for those of you who have no intention of ever raiding - the mana efficiency from 3/3 Master of Elements generally far exceeds that of 3/3 Frost Channeling with this build (and in all other instances once your spell crit is greater than 33.3%) due to the substantial crit over time increase granted Frostfire Bolt by Frostbite/Shatter (+5.1% when hit-capped and both are maxed); if threat isn't an issue for you and your FFB crit rate is at least 28.2%, always prefer Master of Elements for the sake of efficiency. So, for you pure soloers, here's your FFB build: Solo FFB

Comment by 191367

The tooltip for Flame Throwing reads that it does not buff Frostfire Bolt. I've not tested this 1st hand.

Comment by Zarupta

I am curious, as my mage has been fire all the way, will I never be able to do as much damage using Fireball as a mainly Fire, Arcane up to Arcane Meditation build, as I would if I spec'd for Frostfire?

Comment by Rufina

When figthing water "based" enemies (Water elementals), frostbite will have no effect. They are simply immune.

Fire "based" enemies (Fire elementals) are immune to Ignite.

Comment by 238760

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

Comment by leathalguy

I have a question, https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/npc=18870 reduces damage on the first spell school cast on them so what school would get its damage reduced if you were to use this against them?

Just out of curiosity :P

Comment by 222832

Speccing into frostfire bolt causes your fireball to still do more damage. It's not worth it.

Comment by Nazeka

What is the difference between Frostfire and Fire or Frost damage, and if I was a paladin on the receiving end, which resistance aura would reduce the most damage?

Comment by 185084

I'm actually looking at a 18/41/13 build

https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent=of0Vck0cZfVc0MhIhVubhZbIc0o

I get both ice shards and ignite, but don't go all the way down for Burnout. I figure, in a raid setting, you should always be receiving the +12% damage from Torment, and combined with the fact that your sing FFBs, your going to generate it yourself too. No proc abilities, which may or may not be helpful, but I feel it may have some benefits.

Basically the question is if LB, Burnout and Hot Streak Procs > passive across the board 12% damage or not.

Comment by lmh86

Undocumented Class Changes
As of Patch 3.1.0 - PTR Build 9704:

Mage T8 2P Bonus -- Your Arcane Blast, Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, and Fireball spells have a chance to grant you 350 spell power for 15 sec.

As of Patch 3.1 - PTR Build 9722:

Frostfire Bolt will now deal damage based on the resistance of the target: This spell will be checked against the lower of the target's Frost and Fire resists.

Comment by ricekrispieslol

here is a math lesson for you: fireball+frostolt=target pwned. blizzard must love mages a lot to put this spell in WOTLK. also it can be even more awesome if u spec fire/frost, boy oh boy i love tanking with this spell. {when by myself} it has the damage of fire and the slowing of frost which is a deadly combination. XD

Comment by 350182

But do you forget something... Arcane is always better :P

https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent#of0icu0IzxGzMtcd0E00oZhI

Arcane Frostfire Spec whit Slow... PoM... Arcane Power... Arcane barrage :D
And the nice +150% Cirt + 40% Ignite

Arcane Rulz

Comment by 49871

I just hit 75 on my Mage yesterday, and I had to play with a dummy... It's hitting for about.. 1800ish, give or take a few points. But, with Ice Shards and Burnout, it is critting for well into -Four Thousand-... Easily pushing my Pyroblast Damage in a 3 second cast, less with a little Haste here and there.

So, if you can't wait for this spell... Trust me. The wait is worth it.

Comment by godseeker

Comment by 297150

Well now that there is a dual spec option in the game, people can have one spec for Frostfire and the other for whatever they want it to be. I am so looking forward to getting to lvl 75 now.

Comment by 173016

The mystery remains; in which tab in the spell book is this spell added... in the frost tab or the fire tab. Which, when, WHERE?

Comment by 397347

Some of the specs listed here are retarded as pointed out above. There is a sticky at the top of the wowhead mage forum with the builds that actually work. You can shift a few points here and there but, especially for FFB builds, every point but 2 has a place it needs to go.

Comment by 410409

i love this spell. when my mage hit 75 i was wandering if i should respec to use it. when i started questing with it i loved it. i was originally a frost mage and i was doing about 1500 dmg. when i swith to fire/frost mix and using frostfire bolt i was doing 1900 dmg.

this spell is awesome to use against pve. u should definitely use

this is the build that i am using http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=8&tal=00000000000000000000000000000023052003003033300500000000003033033310032100230130000000

Comment by 43352

Just to clear things up a little, this spell is affected by all talents that affect either frost or fire spells except talents that specifically state in the tooltip that they do not affect Frostfire Bolt.

Comment by 258919

This spell has a couple uses.

1) This spell has the longest range of any burst damage mage spell in the game. It can help you reach the turrets on the walls of Fort Wintergrasp, or pull an elite from a further distance (which, with the added speed debuff, makes kiting things easier).

2) If you build up a Frostfire spec (which is tricky), this will be your central burst spell. Frostfire Bolt can proc both fire and frost talent, which is what a frostfire spec is centered around.

Pros
- Has the same speed reduction effect as Frostbolt, but also has a small DoT.
- The DoT does nearly as much damage as Fireball's.
- Longer range
- Faster base casting speed than Fireball

Cons
- More mana costly than frostbolt.
- Does not do as much burst damage as frostbolt - though the DoT makes up for the damage, the DoT is much slower to deal damage and will usually not have it's full length expired before you renew it.

Overall, I wouldn't reccommend using this talent unless you have a Frostfire build. For PvP, the burst damage reduction could be the difference between death and life. For PvE, the burst damage reduction is harmful to your DPS, Fireball does more damage, and it costs more mana than frostbolt.

But don't be afraid to open up a PvP fight with a frostfire bolt, just for 90 extra damage.

Comment by unckle

For new mages ( new to lvl 80 ) the FFB specc is the second option in dps. Don't get me wrong on this, i'll try to explain why it should be the second option for dps.

Arcane specc : https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent#of0wcu0IzxGuGxedcZbhc:Nzi
It requires only 11% hit ( for raid bosses ) , and it works fine even if you are low on crit rating - that's the problem of blue gear, you can have hit OR crit rating , only a few "pre heroic" items have both ( some have spirit and hit rating - those are BiS before you can get into heroics ) . The arcane specc can be used the moment you get to lvl 80 , no matter what gear you have on you - it boosts your spirit, intellect , spell power and mana regen ( remember that heroic bosses require far less hit rating than raid bosses ). Using FFB or FB/TTW specs will probably result in lower dps at this gearing phase ( the blue quest+dungeon gear phase )

FFB specc : https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent#oZfVcbRhuhVubhsthIcco0h:diI
This specc wil require 14% hit against raid bosses and some 3-4% against heroic dungeon bosses . It is more dependent on gear than the Arcane specc above because you don't get "stat improving" talent - you have to provide the stats by using good gear ( ilvl 200 blues and epics from heroics , epic items from emblem rewards , etc ) . The talents give a large boost in damage for thespells that hit the target - and a huge buff to the damage for those that crit - so it is vital that you are hit capped ( a 10k crit in a 3 minute fight is a 55dps loss - if you get to miss 4-5 spells you are down about 200-300 dps , and that hurts a lot ). Having gear for more than one raid setup is important - you don't want to be above the hit cap because that will be just a waste of stats - if you have a 3% debuff on the boss you should only keep 11% hit on you and replace some items for some more haste or crit .

FB/TtW specc : https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent#of0fcu0cZ0EcbR0IhVubhst:LiV
When using this specc it is clear that you have very good gear and your guild can set up a raid that has most of the important buffs / debuffs . This specc is really gear dependent - you need 17% hit (without raid buffs / debuffs ) , you need a lot of crit rating and spirit , and a huge amount of haste ( i was looking at the new T9 set bonuses - a mage can get some 55% crit with ilvl232 gear , and probably reach 65% in BiS gear -- that's b4 raid buffs! ). The community is almost 100% convinced that this is the end-game specc to have for max dps -- ofc there are some that think otherwise , but the majority is "ok " on the FB/TtW specc.

have fun

the above wall of text is ok for Boss fights --- for trash just put Living Bomb on all targets and watch the pretty fireworks while castin Blizzard on them . ( a Flamestrike is also good to be put down if the tank knows how to hold all mobs in one place )

Comment by Norrinir

Don't forget that the DoT effect might be very useful in PvP. Even though you want to avoid DoTs most of the time, as they don't go very well with Polymorph (unless glyphed), Frostfire bolt is very useful for mages who have no access to instant (or just short-cast) spell with DoT (such as Living Bomb) to prevent rogues from Vanishing.

Frostfire Bolt combines the advantages of both Frostbolt and Fireball in PvP. Full rank of Fireball followed by 1st rank of Frostbolt takes up to 5 seconds to cast (4.3 for typical PvP Frost spec - not counting haste) and isn't really mana effective. Frostfire Bolt on the other side is both faster and more mana-effective.

All you have to do, is to force the rogue to use Cloak of Shadows. If you have enough time to cast against rogue who burned his CloS, don't bother with Frostbolt and try to use Frostfire Bolt instead (well... it should be better choice in most cases).

Comment by Benegesserit

I hope this will be the last amalgamation spell Blizzard gives Mages. I would prefer something unique. We already have more viable dps specs than the other pure dps classes, and immunity fights are just silly gimmicks and thankfully a lot less common in Wrath anyway. The worst part is getting a spell that will rarely see any use unless you spec into it or get the odd high resist fight (of course, this still requires a respec if you're Arcane).

EDIT: I think it would have been a lot cooler to just have had a minor glyph that made your fireballs or frostbolts look like this.

Comment by 370864

Ok honestly don't even discuss PvP with this spell, it's purely PvE, why would i bother with a 3 sec frostfire bolt cast instead of a 2.3 frostbolt? seriously the only way to use FFB it's as an opener after poly that's it

Comment by 370864

Oh and one more thing, this spell it's on the fire TAB because really going deep into fire tree for a FFB build its nice, going deep into the frost tree... it's not

Comment by risingcore

just checked the frostbolt and fireball -1 sec casting talent doen not effect the frostfire bolt :(
to bad
a 0.5 sec 2k frostfire bolt would be nice
oh wel

Comment by bhorowitz

If a rogue kicks you while casting this spell, or if a mage counterspells, or a warrior shield bashes you, ETC... will it inturrupt frost school, fire school, or both?

Comment by 449207

this spec is good for pvp: https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent#o0ebbhMczxGuMtgdZhI0fo0h:zim0oc

Comment by 445579

Frostfire. So cold, it burns.

Comment by Soundfx4

P.S. My build doesn't have Frostbite and Shattered Barrier because they interfere with my AOE grinding. Having them would only increase the chance enemies are frozen and therefore the chance to crit with all abilities with Shatter.

You clearly haven't thought that decision through very well. Frostbite helps keep the mobs from reaching you when you're casting blizzard (as slow as they're moving they'll always get frozen in place again) and shatter barrier gives you a free Frost Nova, allowing for your frost nova to stay off of CD for if they get too close; You simply get them all around you and the second Ice barrier breaks blink away, put ice barrier back on and begin blizzard. I can see why you would think those might get in the way but they actually help a lot.

Comment by jjuurriijj

On screenshots it doesnt really look like a frostfire bolt. On high detail its more like a "thunder-vortex-of-pain"-fire bolt

Comment by Nurglitch

Just tested out a frostfire spec today for leveling and it is terrible.

Runs out of mana twice as fast as arcane or frost and doesn't do any extra damage.

I'm in basically best-in-slot lvl.75-ish gear and still OOM as frostfire. I don't OOM as frost or arcane. Arcane blast costs so, so much less mana than frostfire and does just as much dmg (or more)
Frostbolt costs so much less mana than frostfire, slows more with a frost spec than a frostfire-firespec, and with pet does as much/more damage than frostfiring. The 0.7 seconds off frostbolt makes it outrageously better.

It can be nice for lvling as arcane for the initial pull since it has a slow and it's 40 yards instead of frostbolt's 30 yards. Same cast time. But too expensive mana wise to try and spam it.

Comment by 395907

Let me state my opinion about this spell as pvp fire mage 4 life guy.

This spell is not ment 4 pve. It is a pvp analog of Fireball for pvp purpuses.
Resons:

It allows you to skip Inprowed Fireball talent, allowing u to spend your 1rst tier points in Imp Fire Blast and Iniciration. That meens that you whont overpoint 1 tiear to move on deeper in fire tree, there for allowing u to spend more points in other trees.
It gives snere wich potentialy can give ms effect and poc a root wich again potentialy can penetrate crit chance reduction.
And lastly, Fire/TTW build is more viable then FFB build 4 in pve.

Allot of people disregarded this spell as pvp spell cos of its long cast time and flaw of locking bouth fire and frost spell schools. But I think fire mage can have many tools wich allows him to cast it whith out interupting it or geting malee dameged:

Dragons Breath.
Frost Nova
Frost Bite
Burning Determination
Icy Veins

In conlusion, I think that changes in Fall of th LK patch only conforms my statment about this spell- Fireball 4 pve & Frostfirebolt 4 pvp.

Comment by 318094

I've been doing a lot of frost pve since 3.3.3 hit, and I've been having a lot of fun as a result. Frostfire Bolt has some obvious relevance to frost specs (things that have already been discussed to some length on this comments page, at least in regard to the FFB spec benefits of frost talents), as well as some not-so-obvious relevance as well.

Frostfire bolt benefits from talents that improve frost damage, deals double damage on crits if the target is not immune to frost damage, and procs Fingers of Frost. While it seems that there is a small internal cooldown preventing frostfire bolt from reproccing Brain Freeze if it has recently consumed a Brain Freeze proc, I am uncertain as to whether such a cooldown exists for casting Frostfire Bolt during a non-BF moment.

FFB benefits from all slowing talents in the frost tree and can trigger frostbite (though my current spec has no room for frostbite, the slowing part is especially relevant due to Torment the Weak and the general concepts of kiting). The initial hit of FFB will add a stack of Winter's Chill; however, the dot damage at the end does not add any additional stacks when it ticks. For this reason, I also suspect that the dot damage does not proc FoF, Frostbite, or Brain Freeze, which I will do some testing on later.

It is an interesting ability that has certainly been a welcome addition and improvement to frost dps, but I wonder if Blizzard could do a little more with it. Competitive FFB-specs are fire-emphatic. Coupled with the fact that FFB for the purpose of categorization is in the fire tree, it seems that Fire has a firm grasp on this ability that seeks to bridge the gap between fire and frost, a much firmer grasp than Frost has to be sure. Outside of the newly added Brain Freeze procs and the general concept that FFB is essentially a flexible-but-not-as-powerful Frostbolt (for the purpose of Frost dps, it can proc and benefit from just about everything frostbolt can), I can't help but wonder if it can do a little more to serve Frost better, the same way it has synergy with fire. I suppose my biggest wish would be that the dot would have more relevance to frost. While it is true that the dot is basically the contribution Fireball brings to FFB, Fire mages generally glyph for Fireball, thus completely removing the dot (and why shouldn't they? Not only is the damage from the dot minor. It is also static and receives no benefit from spellpower, and would likely get refreshed ad nauseum before it finishes its ticks regardless). It would be nice if because the dot on FFB is Frostfire damage, it contributes more to the frost side of things. Being able to proc FoF, Frostbite, WC, or BF would make the dot less flavor and more integral to frost dps, as it would help to maintain proc uptime which has been the biggest obstacle Frost dps contends with right now; when nothing's proccing, frost dps suffers, but when everything is proccing, frost dps is impressive and engaging. The dot having a more important role (for procs rather than damage) would bridge the gap between everything happening and nothing happening by normalizing the RNG a bit more, and would also make Brain Freeze more integral to frost dps as a way to keep things going, not just to serve as a dps increase via an insta-cast FFB being better damage per second than a 2.3 second frostbolt (not factoring in haste, of course).

That's my two cents at least. I would like to see it become less "Fireball with a slow" and more "Frostbolt with a dot" if that makes any sense.

Comment by 166824

Frostbite = Scattered mobs, Shattered barrier also can = scattered mobs, making it hard to get them all in a neat group to AoE down.

Comment by 303822

The biggest mage scam since the inception of Blink.

Also, an interesting piece of information:

Quoted from blue "Zarhym"

School lockouts will no longer affect both schools for multi-school spells.

So, as of Cataclysm, Frostfire will be perfect for Fire PvP.

Comment by 626093

Perfect Combo with most Frost talents and the Brain Freeze talent. Release few Frostbolts, and then instantly cast a Frostfire bolt with the Brain Freeze. Perfect for both PvP and PvE!

Comment by 211544

I've always wondered how it would feel to be struck by one of these...

You would feel cold, yet burning, or does it burns so much that it's cold? A frostbite effect?

Interesting...

Comment by 687730

I can't share your optimism regarding the need for this spell in Cata PvE. Fire PvE spec requires crit for the Hot Streak's procs, and glyphed Fireball will have advantage here anyways. I could only find some usage for this spell in a handicapped frost PvE spec like this:
https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent#k0oZfcZffbMsIszoo
Whenever you get Brain Freeze and Fingers of Frost, you can do a terrible terrible damage off fire's x2.1 crit dmg (which is the max possible in Cata for mages), it should work like the Hot Streak for frost mages.
Still, comparing the mastery bonuses of all specs, you'll barely want to actually use any frost spec for PvE.
https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent#kGIrMRhRroRobZc / https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/talent#khhZfchbkbRosfoc should do the thing.

Comment by 684152

Right now this spell is bugged against mobs with high spell ress - done 218k with one cast.

Comment by 645062

A good spell for Fire mage dps. it can replace Fireball in the rotation

from Elitist Jerks:

Primary Nuke: Fireball VS Frostfire Bolt

Fire Mages can cast either Fireball or Frostfire Bolt as primary nuke in their rotation. The DPS difference is trivial, but Fireball is superior by a very small margin: Less than 1%. Why's the difference so small?

- Fireball and Frostfire Bolt cost the same amount of mana
- Fireball and (Glyphed) Frostfire bolt do the same amount of damage

The only other notable difference stems from Glyph of Fireball and Glyph of Frostfire. Glyph of Frostfire Bolt adds a 3% damage DOT (stacks 3 times) whereas Glyph of Fireball adds 5% crit. The periodic damage of Glyphed Frostfire Bolt can crit, which will leave an Ignite for additional damage.

For Tier 11 levels of gear and combat ratings, the 5% crit from Fireball's Glyph is very slightly superior to the extra damage DOT from Frostfire Bolt's Glyph. There's no other difference, aside from aesthetics. Therefore we can sum up the primary nuke debate by saying:

Fireball as primary nuke is better, but only very slightly. The difference is small enough such that you could even opt to cast the spell you find most pleasing visually.

Comment by Zerim

I've always wondered: What kind of object could be both burning and frozen at the same time?
I've come to a conclusion.
When a mage casts Frostfire bolt, it is, quite simply, a conjured Hot Pocket.

Comment by 495257

Does FFB proc Ignite, yes the one in fire spec, seen a frost mage spec into ignite, figured hed be using this

Comment by 754478

Wouldnt having a high mastery in fire make this better then fire bolt if u have the glyph?

Comment by TwilightImp

This spell reminds me so much of Vaan's quickening : Pyroclasm

Comment by 758761

Has anyone notices that the duration of the slow is effected by haste? The base duration of the chill effect is 9 seconds but on my mage it is about 7.8 and I have roughly 14% haste. Removing haste gear increases the duration of the effect.

Comment by Kanariya

This is now the very first spell all Mages will have.

Comment by Bogdanov89

Using the glyph Fire Mages can replace Fireball with Frostfire Bolt without losing any DPS - but gaining a slow effect.
Useful for adding a move speed slow effect to the Fire spec, if one is needed (mostly solo and PvP).

Unlike Fire who can spam Frostfire Bolt (with it's glyph), Frost and Arcane have no use for it's glyph since they will never be CASTING Frostfire Bolt - Frost has a Brain Freeze proc that makes it instant (hence the glyph is useless for frost and arcane).

Comment by glaiveninja

anyone can answer what effect bonus you get exactly when you use frostfire bolt when you have https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/spell=27982] on your weapon? does the enchant effect double?

Comment by hjp426

Not quite sure how to word this... but I've noticed with other classes and spells, like Exorcism for ret pally, or Lightning Bolt for shaman, you can push the hotkey again before it's done casting to start casting again. With Frostfire Bolt, I have to wait for the spell to completely finish casting before I can push the hotkey again to cast it another time. Any idea why this is, or anyone else have the same issue?

Links

Frostfire Bolt

Frostfire Bolt	Level 90

4% of base mana	40 yd range

2.75 sec cast

Launches a bolt of frostfire at the enemy, causing 1 Frostfire damage and slowing the target by 40% for 8 sec.

Buff

Frostfire Bolt	Level 90

Movement slowed by 40%.
8 seconds remaining

Spell Details

Duration

8 seconds

School

Fire, Frost

Mechanic

n/a

Dispel type

Magic

GCD category

Normal

Cost

4% of base mana

Range

40 yards (Long)

Cast time

2.75 seconds

Cooldown

n/a

GCD

1.5 seconds

Effect #1

Apply Aura: Decrease Run Speed %
Value: -40%
Mechanic: Snared
PVP Multiplier: 1

Effect #2

School Damage (Fire, Frost)
Value: 1 (SP mod: 1.5)
PVP Multiplier: 1

Flags

Cannot be used while shapeshifted
DoT Stacking Rule
Show Mechanic as Combat Text
Don't Cancel When All Effects are Disabled

Frostfire Bolt

Buff

Spell Details

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